A Plea to the powers that be

[markn]

I'm developing a site for a client who has determined that they want to use Google Apps and in particular the gmail email system. The development version is currently hosted by CrystalTech.

To fascilitate gmail on the domain, I've reconfigured the DNS MX records and such without a problem, however, when I came to modifying part of the web-site (ASP.NET 2.0) that dispatches email messages via SMTP, I discovered that it is not possible to use the gmail SMTP server because CrystalTech block both SSL ports that gmail can accept SMTP on (465 and 587).

I discovered this from a very helpful gentleman on the support team, but having spoken to his supervisor, he informed me that CrystalTech would not consider opening either of these ports.

This is very frustrating, because I really like CrystalTech's services and support and I've been recommending them to anyone who'll listen, but I really don't want the hassle of shifting everything over to a different host.

In the light of CrystalTech's own scant email storage capacity and faced with the inevitability of Google's market dominance, I'm frankly amazed that CrystalTech won't even consider supporting gmail, and I'm convinced that I won't be the last developer to face this issue.

So, if anyone from the CT hierarchy with the power to change policy is reading this, I strongly urge you to reconsider your refusal to support one of the world's most popular email providers. Go on, prove me right when I tell people what a great responsive company you are, open up that port, you know you want to.

Mark

[wizhuff]

I discovered that it is not possible to use the gmail SMTP server because CrystalTech block both SSL ports that gmail can accept SMTP on (465 and 587).

So if I understand the problem correctly, you can use Gmail just fine with your custom domain @mydomian.com but you are wanting to send email from your webpage with some script (asp, asp.net coldfusion, whatever)... but since the email server is now Gmail and not your local smartermail you can't do it because it won't communicate out ot Gmail's server cause the firewall on the shared servers is blocking it?

It this a correct understanding of the problem?

[markn]

I discovered that it is not possible to use the gmail SMTP server because CrystalTech block both SSL ports that gmail can accept SMTP on (465 and 587).

So if I understand the problem correctly, you can use Gmail just fine with your custom domain @mydomian.com but you are wanting to send email from your webpage with some script (asp, asp.net coldfusion, whatever)... but since the email server is now Gmail and not your local smartermail you can't do it because it won't communicate out ot Gmail's server cause the firewall on the shared servers is blocking it?

It this a correct understanding of the problem?

This is exactly correct.

[wizhuff]

This is exactly correct.

Then I agree, this is really lame. 

[Derek [CT]]

Obviously we block a ton of ports on our shared servers to remove the potential for hack, attack and compromise. This is the first request of this type that I know of, so we'll look into the possibility. Mark, you may receive an email from one of our teams on this, so keep your eyes open.

[mannaggia]

Just curious - what would be the problem with sending out the e-mail through CT's SMTP server?

(I am curious for my own knowledge - we do not currently send out any e-mails through our web apps, but we do use Google Apps for Domains for our e-mail to take advantage of their spam filtering.)

[wizhuff]

Just curious - what would be the problem with sending out the e-mail through CT's SMTP server?

(I am curious for my own knowledge - we do not currently send out any e-mails through our web apps, but we do use Google Apps for Domains for our e-mail to take advantage of their spam filtering.)

He has already moved his email MX record to point to GMail so he really has no email at CT and since CT requires you to send from a vaild email address (I believe) when sending through code it wouldn't work.

[markn]

Obviously we block a ton of ports on our shared servers to remove the potential for hack, attack and compromise. This is the first request of this type that I know of, so we'll look into the possibility. Mark, you may receive an email from one of our teams on this, so keep your eyes open.

Thanks for the reply, Derek, and of course I understand that you want to limit your open ports, but since Google are now allowing folks to use their gmail and Google Apps services with custom domain names I feel CT will be missing an opportunity if they don't fix this. There must be many people out there who'd rather gmail's 2GB per mailbox limit over the meager CT/SmarterMail solution.

I'll definitely keep a look out for an email response because staying with CT is by far my preferred solution. This issue aside, you guys do a terrific job.

(Oh, while I'm here, any chance of more than one CNAME?)

Just curious - what would be the problem with sending out the e-mail through CT's SMTP server?

(I am curious for my own knowledge - we do not currently send out any e-mails through our web apps, but we do use Google Apps for Domains for our e-mail to take advantage of their spam filtering.)

He has already moved his email MX record to point to GMail so he really has no email at CT and since CT requires you to send from a vaild email address (I believe) when sending through code it wouldn't work.

Exactly right again, but no harm done as yet, currently this is purely a development site with a dummy Google Apps account. The client is planning on purchasing the dedicated or semi-dedicated CT service if we can go live on this platform.

Mark

[Ryan [CT]]

Hi Mark, from a quick search I see that ports 465 and 587 are alternate SMTP ports such as CT provides 8889 for SMTP. Is GMAIL preventing you from using the standard smtp ports?

[markn]

Hi Mark, from a quick search I see that ports 465 and 587 are alternate SMTP ports such as CT provides 8889 for SMTP. Is GMAIL preventing you from using the standard smtp ports?

Ryan, yes, that's correct. Gmail uses port 465 as their SMTP port (they're using using SSL) although if you dig deeper you find that 587 is good too. Isn't 465 the standard port for SMTPS?

[BobWilliams [CT]]

Hi Mark, from a quick search I see that ports 465 and 587 are alternate SMTP ports such as CT provides 8889 for SMTP.

Not exactly. Typically, mere alternate ports (2525 is commonly chosen for SMTP, for instance) simply go to the same service as the standard port. In contrast, port 465 was the standard SMTP-over-SSL port, though I don't think that was ever officially established by RFC (indeed, it conflicts with some other protocol that I can't recall); it's been more or less deprecated in recent years but is still widely used. Port 587 is the standard SMTP submission port defined by RFC in the late '90s.

Is GMAIL preventing you from using the standard smtp ports?

From above, you can see that GMail is using the standard ports. I believe they also let you use port 25, but require 465 or 587 for secured connections. This is typical.

[Ryan [CT]]

Thanks, that was my oversight, I apologize.

[markn]

Thanks, that was my oversight, I apologize.

So, if we're all pretty much agreed that it's the correct port for SMTP over SSL, can I please formally request that it be unblocked?

[markn]

How long should I expect to wait for an answer?

[markn]

A Quick update for any lurkers interested in this problem:

The good folks at CrystalTech have been very helpful in assisting me with this issue, but it now transpires that gmail will only accept incoming smtps messages on port 587. For some unknown reason, port 465 does not work from the .NET environment.

Thanks again to everyone helping on this issue.
Mark